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Poster: Jim F Date: Oct 9, 2012 11:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

I had the chance to sit down with Pete Lavezzoli an hour or two ago, mostly I just wanted to thank him for the missing 2 minutes of the 11/8/69 Caution, but throughout the conversation, many times he kept coming back to 11/26/72 (and the desperately needed aud of 10/21/72). I instantly thought of Mr. Light Into Ashes and his regular praise for this show, particularly the Dark Star, so I'd like to thank the both of you for consuming the next 2 or 3 hours of my time as I re-examine this show. It's always been under my radar when it comes to Fall '72, I'll report back after more scrutiny.

http://archive.org/details/gd72-11-26.sbd.cotsman.9248.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 10, 2012 3:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

It would be nice to have an AUD for 10/21/72 - but that SBD is more than we had before!
Looking forward to your 11/26/72 report. Did Pete L praise this show? It may fall under the radar partly because set I is pretty murky-sounding...and the jams are not as furious as what they were doing a week earlier.
But I do often cite that Dark Star! It loses momentum after the verse - no real space, but a meandering Phil solo (he doesn't quite want to play the Philo Stomp anymore), but then they recover with a beautiful Feelin' Groovy. (Unfortunately there are a couple skips here in the Archive copy.) Then, having mellowed everyone, they pull the rug out with a hair-raising Tiger. It then sounds like Garcia's revving up for another melodic jam when Weir cuts in with Bobby McGee...grr!

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Poster: Jim F Date: Oct 13, 2012 12:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

I'm still processing, nice first set but sadly I've been saving the Dark Star for just the right moment. I certainly enjoyed the Playin', that one was under my radar. It'd been a while since a put that show on, I'm thinking within the last year, maybe around the anniversary last year. I believe at your urging, probably some post you made about it.

Anyway yeah, that was what I was trying to say, was that throughout the whole conversation, Pete just kept talking about 11/26. He said it was his favorite Dark Star of the Fall. I asked "even more than 9/21, or a personal favorite, Waterbury, or maybe 10/18/72, runner up 10/28...?" He said nope, 11/26 is tops. Not surprising, though, we all have our favorites, sometimes we don't get the hype others get.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 13, 2012 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

His favorite? That is a surprise...
It's my favorite Feeling Groovy jam, anyway, but I'm sure others hear it & go, "what's so special?"

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Oct 13, 2012 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

http://archive.org/post/298954/i-need-a-suggestion-from-72-non-europe-related

http://archive.org/post/324652/grateful-deads-best-tours

It is unusual with such easy accessibility to the vast majority of their catalog how any show remains under the radar.The 11/26 show features top notch versions of B.T. Wind,Playin',Don't Ease,Big River and Sugar Mag.

The Dark Star has a nice relaxed open with Phil on top while Jerry plays sharp repetitive runs of soft ringers on theme,pretty piano fills ->2:00 Jerry plays around theme,deep loping Phil,nice Billy accents ->nice Jerry feedback leads ->4:00 snappy long Jerry runs,punchy Phil,nice Keith mirroring while Jerry cooks->mellow full band shuffle,tinkling Keith is nice->6:00 sweet Jerry lead,odd pulsing back up,mild stabbing Keith,nice loopy jam->soft crying Jerry->8:00 laid back Feelin' Groovy licks,Jerry/Phil out front,good drums->riffy Jerry,Caution like vibe->band dances around theme->10:00 full on theme->10:30 1st verse->12:00 Jerry quiet ringers,Phil mellow,deep ringers,Keith switches to electric piano plays accents->quiet soft space,classical feel->14:00 Phil out front strumming->sing-songy thumpers ->nice melodic deep runs,good drums and cymbal shuffle underneath ->16:00 resonant Phil repeaters,Philo stomp-ish->Jerry returns with Phil on top->18:00 Jerry cooks some with Phil right on it->snappy Feelin' Groovy jam,real nice groove,Jerry sounds sweet,nice full Phil tone->20:00 Jerry is just flowin',sounds killer,tape jump-> sort of swirlin' Phil,good Keith,Jerry riffs it up relaxed style->mellow tiger jam,Jerry is runnin' the neck->22;00 Jerry and Phil are ripping it up,Weir finally shows up with some killer licks,Keith chunks are flying->full band space out->24:00 Jerry is playing stacked runs,Phil and Billy are rumbling,Keith is comping Jerry nicely,Weir is playing twisted benders ->dissolves into Bobbie McGee at 25:12.


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Poster: Jim F Date: Oct 14, 2012 1:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

Well a large part of the conversation was about how the show would be a lot more well-known if there were a much cleaner upgrade. He felt it was the sound quality holding it back. And I'd agree with that argument to an extent.

I've personally never been as big on November 1972. I really like August through October, but aside from 11/17, November isn't a month I visit often.

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Oct 14, 2012 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

I'm not quite the stickler for pristine quality,this show sounds really good to my ear,people are very spoiled with what's become available in the last 20 years.No one could argue with your fondness for August-October,with September being possibly the finest month in the bands history,somewhat a function of there being 14 shows,but they produced 24 stellar versions of the big four Dark Star,Other One,Playin' and Bird Song.While November doesn't come close to matching that output it did produce 2 all-time top 10 versions of Playin',11/15 and 11/18 and 8 other top notch versions of the big four in the 10 shows we have available.I tend to favor December,there seemed to be a fierceness and sense of purpose I've never heard before or after,it all seemed to come together.

This post was modified by jerlouvis on 2012-10-14 22:41:50

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 14, 2012 1:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

11/13/72 is also a show I recommend at every opportunity!

I agree that many folks probably pay more attention to Aug/September '72 because of the better sound quality.
Not all the November shows are all-timers either...11/12 has that strange mix; 11/22 I thought was a bit too mellow, and 11/24 is missing a big second-set jam (though it's otherwise quite a rockin' show). 11/19 a lot of people like although the SQ isn't great - I'm not such a big fan of the Dark Star from that show (a little too drifty for me), but I might hear it differently next time.
Anyway, Nov '72 should be known at least for its massive Playing in the Bands, at least - 11/15 and 11/18 being two of the best ever; and practically every Playing from this period is great as well.

Of course I thought highly enough of Dec '72 to write a whole post about it. I can't believe 12/31/72, with its amazing Other One jams, hasn't been released yet. 12/10 probably has too many cuts & mix problems for release, but is utterly incredible - and 12/15 is a must-hear as well!

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Poster: Jim F Date: Oct 15, 2012 1:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

I totally don't remember reading your writeup of December 72. I love the month myself and should probably go read that. I haven't visited your page in a while, sometime soon I should do a refresher on some of your older essays, always great reading which makes me wanna go pull out this show or that one (or why I especially love this place, simply clicking the provided link).

Anywho I just finished up the Dark Star>Bobby McGee from 11/26. I didn't listen very critically, though, I was typing emails and stuff, I might give it another listen via headphones while I go to sleep. But I liked the long, floaty 10 minute DS theme jam up to the verse. I don't remember anything specific after that, just a vague spacedown shift with prominent Phil, and I don't remember the transition but I remember the very strong Feelin Groovy Jam once it developed. Then I remember it being anticlimactic, while they can otherwise be very strong performances, I never cared as much for the versions with spacy segments that just blunder into other songs with no developed, jammy transition (a really obvious example might be the jam into Sugar Magnolia from 4/8/72). Somehow the DStheme jam/verse/theme jam/space/next song format isn't as fun as a version that has a spaceout after the verse, then a really developed theme jam with a seque, if I'm making any sense here.

I dunno I got some listening to do, I may report back on these topics again. I hadn't been reading or posting on here for a while, just kinda getting back into checking up around here.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 15, 2012 11:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

Hmm, I thought everyone had read it already!
http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2009/12/december-1972.html

I agree it's not as fun when Dark Star just blunders into another song with no transition - Weir tends to be the culprit, as here - and it's even worse here since Garcia is obviously starting a new jam, but gets cut off!

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Poster: Jim F Date: Oct 15, 2012 11:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

I just re-read it again, I remember reading that now, it's probably just been a couple years. Now I also wanna go back and listen to all those Dec 72 shows.

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Oct 15, 2012 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

Somehow that one got by me,read it last night and found many interesting insights and tidbits.I particularly enjoyed your comments about Crosby's interaction at the 12/31 show.
We seem to fall in line on all the longer material.I enjoyed the 2 China Cat's more than you,I found them both inspired versions,and you made no mention of the Tennessee Jed's from 12/12 and 12/15,both of which I thought were really strong,Keith is all over the 12/12 take in a unique fashion and Jerry and Keith finish off the 12/15 version with a nice jam.I also enjoyed the Casey Jones from New Years,Keith and Billy both bash away gleefully.
What really got my wheels spinning was a mention of Hendrix in relation to some Jerry feedback playing,awhile back you mentioned an affinity for Jimi's playing and I think that would be a fantastic jump off point for an essay,maybe a comparison or study of Hendrix/Garcia similarities/differences,something along those lines.I like some of Jimi's music,but don't get the whole guitar god thing on any level.I know I'm pretty liberal in usage of your time and subject matter,but somebody's got to make outrageous suggestions.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 16, 2012 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

Well, Hendrix is a god for me! Can't say more about that, really.
I'm not able to make a close comparison of Garcia & Hendrix's playing, someone more knowledgeable would have to do that. Stylistically they were extremely different - Hendrix was so much more into hard rock, R&B and blues, and hardly at all into fingerpicking folky stuff. Though Hendrix could drop into country-style picking from time to time, & Garcia also did slow blues like Death Don't sometimes. (And they both did Johnny B Goode...)
Hendrix often flirted with jazz, not only in his songs but also in jamming with folks like Larry Young (kind of the equivalent of the Garcia/Saunders collaboration), and even recorded with horns a couple times. You can find them both playing Wes Montgomery-style octaves, though much more often in Hendrix's case.
I might say that both were good 'support' players - having backed for years in R&B bands, Hendrix was very strong at rhythm backgrounds & fills.
It's in his most 'psychedelic' playing in the early Dark Stars when Garcia perhaps comes closest, thinking 'outside the box' in making strange guitar sounds - compare, say, the weird space-outs after the verse in a 1970 Dark Star to Hendrix's little space section in live I Don't Live Todays from 1969.
Their use of feedback is when the two touch hands, so to speak - but Garcia usually didn't extend & vibrate a single note of feedback (Hendrix's trademark), so I note it when he does. In general the Dead used feedback at specific places for a specific purpose, while Hendrix uses it all over the place, practically as decoration.
And I sadly have to say that Hendrix never got into full-band improvisation like the Dead did - he preferred to solo over a very rigid backing, and when jamming with others, it was usually in the taking-turns-to-solo mode. I can only imagine what Hendrix might've done if he'd ever picked a bass player like Lesh. (Though he did play with Jack Casady a couple times.)
That said, pieces like 1983 off Electric Ladyland certainly show that he could make lengthy, evocative soundscapes, given more time & freedom.

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2012-10-16 19:30:14

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Oct 16, 2012 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

While I am certainly not a Hendrix aficionado,I am familiar with the bulk of his material in studio and live performance settings,and understand there is little similarity in his and Garcia's playing styles,but you made some interesting points in your post about Wes Montgomery style octaves and both being good support players,I find Jerry's "rhythm" guitar work to be top notch.I listened to two I Don't Live Today's from 69',Royal Albert Hall and S.D.,and he does do a short Jimi style space at about 3 minutes,it's a volume induced feedback jam.Oddly enough what I enjoy most about Jimi's music is his vocal style,some lyrical content and his compositional skills.I think Little Wing is a beautiful piece of music.

I find his playing to be far to blues based and somewhat unimaginative,I know it is sacrilege to question the great Hendrix,but I have never heard him play anything that just dropped my jaw.I'm not trying to put him down in any way for there must be something to his ability because far to many great guitarists gush over him and call him the best,I just get bored after a couple of songs.

Thanks for taking the time to punch out a quick information rich post.

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Oct 14, 2012 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: For LIAshes (and Pete L)

I was tempted too put in a plug for your beloved 11/13 Dark Star-> Morning Dew in your name in my post,but I figured if you wanted to you would make a more eloquent case.I will have to re-visit that combo again.

I mistakenly put in the 11/19 Playin',while it is a top notch version it pales in comparison to one of the greats from the previous night.As you stated it was a great month for Playin',the 11/22,11/24,and 11/26 versions were all exceptional.Throw in a fine Other One from 11/17 and two exemplary Bird Songs from 11/19 and 11/22 and that is a solid month for the jam stuff.

I have read a number of your posts on your blog and I don't know how a post on my favorite month has eluded me,I will have to check that out! As I have said before I do not get hung up on the quality,as long as I can hear most of what's happening I make do.Those 5 shows,while maybe not having a wealth of all-time versions,do contain a batch of very special versions.I do put the 12/10 Other One in the all-time class,and they gave us 3 magnificent Playin's,12/10,12/15 and 12/31.The Dark Star from 12/15 is an extraordinary effort and they also kick in 2 more spectacular Other One's 12/12 and 12/31.Toss in a beautiful Bird Song from 12/12 and three poignant versions of He's Gone from 12/11,12/12 and 12/15 which contains a ripping jam into Truckin' and you have treasure trove of some of the finest music ever made by anyone.